headlines tune in to kaiser report. if . we've tried regime change before and sometimes it's worked and sometimes it's taken two years that's being said he's been there done that secretary of the faith of defense robert gates so for him is the mission in libya calming down politics over experience congress wants to know. congress also wants to know the plan how much and how long and from the ghosts of war's costs will arming the rebels to fight gadhafi now because the u.s. to be up in arms later. there is that in general anyone. is lower than it was thirty years ago. and why might that be

let's start by taking a look at some high profile pay stubs from ten to fifteen million dollar contracts mainstream media talent cashes in quality. the mission in libya is now under the command of nato and we continue to see the pendulum swing in terms of who controls the major regions there we know the members of the cia at least have their boots on the ground and there is new evidence that the question of whether or not to arm the rebels there was answered weeks ago when an order signed by president obama saying well let's do it what will the implications of all this be i want to go now to one of our favorite guests here on our team and that is rapper low key he's in london right now. hey they're located it's been a while since we've last spoken and

a few things have happened you could say including u.n. resolution one nine hundred seventy three and the west involvement in libya there are so many theories about why libya why not elsewhere why anywhere at all i want to get your thoughts on this. klassen really i believe that the interests work here . the u.s. britain and france has interests in sustaining a civil war rather than reaching some type of. time when things can be sort of put back together in the country can be a whole it's about sustaining the period of civil war and thus the stabilizing revolutions which took place in tunis and in egypt i think it's interesting that there is such a respect for these u.n. resolution for the un resolution one thousand nine hundred ninety three when israel has violated countless un resolutions in the united states britain and france had never even considered military action let alone sanctions but we'll hear what

benefit does it have for the last for the u.k. france and the united states to have such strife going on in libya to have the civil war as you say they want to keep that going by. what i think if we can specifically talk about britain for a moment let's look at who was next to david cameron when he went to egypt after the revolution it was his friends from b. eighty systems this war is costing brits and five million pounds per day it's costing the british taxpayer five million pounds but they now all of that money is going to be a systems in terms that every weapon in britain the uses will of course have to be replaced so in the terms of britain having that role that's what that's about also in terms of it being within their interests for it to be destabilized is if you have a imperial presence in libya and also you know it's really are involved in this as

well and you know you can just ask the libyans about the history of its early in the region the french room but we can ask that algerian about the history of the french in the region we can ask the egyptians about the history of the british the libyans also know about the british they establish military base but in terms of keeping. avoiding the possibility of there being three. countries that have genuine revolutions genuine uprisings and then being able to unite i think that is something which the imperial powers don't really want to see so you're saying a lot of the world in some way that this is as simply about propping up the military industrial complex well definitely of course but we have to also question why is. complete hypocrisy when it comes to places like bahrain and saudi arabia and then we have to look at. really who created and nurtured the political

elites that rule in these places why are saudi arabia qatar the u.a.e. and britain supporting supporting quote unquote democracy activists in libya but fighting against democracy activists in bahrain and saudi arabia doesn't really make sense locally and a personal note i guess i want to ask you to speak for your generation for others like you you know second or third generation generation muslims living in the last few seem and you have seen for many months angry about what's going on do you think that this is a sentiment shared by your peers by people like you. i think it's important to also understand that one side of my family is english you know i had. a great aunt on one side of my family who was married to a man in the military that lives on the british military base in libya as a human being i don't believe it is right for grissom or any other country in the

world to have any type of military base in libya and believe me if these powers get their way when all is said and done there will be a foreign military base again in libya and i don't believe that is acceptable i don't expect any human being should be asked to accept that and i also feel that if griffin is interested in defending itself against terrorism this is really not the way to go about it involving itself in a war which it doesn't need to be involved in and the fact that david cameron himself since sniper rifles to could that be in november two thousand and ten really tells you all you need to know about the whole part chrissy of the british government when it comes to libya certainly i would imagine where you are in london as here you know in the united states and washington d.c. in particular a lot of very. graphic opinions are strong opinions going on here from the people

about what's happening that was rather lucky and personally we are out of time lucky joining us from london england. and here today in washington defending the mission in libya secretary of defense robert gates and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff admiral mike mullen testified before congress for the first time since the u.s. started its involvement in libya our scale and ford has more on the model nature of the mission and the anger it's spurring for some lawmakers. twelve days into the u.s. bombing of libya. u.s. congressmen were hoping to finally get some answers but after two hours of questioning the secretary of defense and chairman of the joint chiefs of staff they were still confusion about the u.s. is the end game i think a policy success would be the removal of. the khadafi regime a military mission is a limited one and does not include regime change. who the rebels are we don't have

much visibility into and of those who have risen against gadhafi each element has its own agenda. it's pretty much a pick up all going to this point and whether the u.s. will arm them discuss our plans if you need regarding arming the rebels they seem to be getting better but whipped but peace in mind passed the buck on that one deferring to the white house once it was al qaeda decided to bristle in their stories would clearly have a problem about how long the u.s. will stay a bottom line is no one can predict for you how long it will take. for that to happen and whether the u.s. is that war at all these are combat operations were intended to become a better operationally begin to i don't know why this administration is not going on this with the american people because this is about regime change what is clear the cost five hundred fifty million dollars in the first ten days alone and the estimated forty million dollars a month but not how it will be paid in terms of how to pay for this.

there is a. year in the discussions with the white house would be very difficult for the department to eat this cost tough talk from the house over president obama's unilateral decision we don't understand what he's doing still. and i don't think he has the support of this congress when was the great to get there armed services committee there wasn't your circular defense you ought to be an expert on what's an act of war of war or not he told congress the president actually did not make his final decision on what to do until thursday night less than forty eight hours before the first two hundred tomahawk missiles were fired it's mullen repeated over and over again there would be no american ground troops there will be no american boots on the ground in libya who is the person on the ground that is directing close air support missions against his fortunes there's no one on the ground recent

press reports at least indicate there are cia operatives on the ground so boots on the ground as i would define it and of other standing troops i guess is we'd all read about it in the newspaper saying i think that's my concern is that we read about things in the newspaper and then we get to come and ask the questions for us formally handed control to nato today and the operation odyssey dawn and beginning operation unified protector but newspapers quoting vatican sources said that forty civilians were killed in coalition air strikes guaranteeing that there will be plenty of more questions for top american military brass here in washington and florida artsy washington d.c. from tough questions as you saw posed by members of congress many of whom simply feel they've been left out in the cold when it came to making a decision to get involved in libya in the first place how compelling was that testimony and how will it shape what happens next joining me now for more is former

senior intelligence officer for the cia dr meal knock away he's also the author of this book necessary in gauge ment's reinventing america's relations with the muslim world and their doctor not go away let's start out with this decision to get involved in libya was it a good one or a bad one. i think it was unnecessary. i think the libyan movement started as a peaceful movement demanding the end of repression of the regime used heavy weapons against them and it seems in order to save civilians the west decided wisely to get in by lending limited work but down to not play we just heard some news that came down today at least forty civilians were killed by the airstrikes by the west in addition there's new information that we really don't know who these rebels are that apparently the president's already decided to give arms to how can

this be justified to go in and give strangers who may or may not turn against the u.s. in the future to give them weapons and to come into a country where this is going on in several countries. these are not rebels in the traditional sense the analogy. does not hold the libya is not being invaded by you for in free as afghanistan was by the soviet union i think our. decision groups in order to talk. is should be the goal and it's a limited goal at this so you think that there's no similarities or that some of these similarities at least these historic connections between the arming of the mujahedeen who later became the taliban you know turned against the u.s. you don't think that there's that connection holds any water. no no it doesn't because we are the majority do you have guns in order to shoot down soviets

in a craft there are no aircraft that are protecting people in libya so therefore we do not need to arm them with that i wasn't the one about the civilians who were killed i mean we saw at least forty today killed in these airstrikes led by the west what happens tomorrow when the next day of discontinuous christians are more civilians killed by gadhafi and i think that's what we need to focus on the civilians that are killed by god and just brutality and i think that brutality must stop i think dr not not lay i'm sure you've heard of this question being asked several times over the last several days we see what's going on in libya certainly some horrific things that we see but we see that going on not just here we see it happening in yemen in bahrain in the sudan why has the u.s. chosen this country and all the others. because bishop bob started there in yemen and we are also working i didn't move on to start it because it forms have not been

. by hand and i believe that that machine will come to an end soon and i think in bahrain we are pushing for reform to dialogue and i hope the bahraini government when live up to his commitment to start a dialogue with the opposition so you think in yemen that saleh is on his way out you think in bahrain things are going to change in a more diplomatic fashion is that what i'm hearing i think so what if what do you think is next i mean certainly there's talk we've heard days not weeks weeks not months and you know we've also had some guests here on our team who say the u.s. the west nato could be in libya for twenty years what's your take on how this plays out and how it ends i do not believe you know i think i think billions are going to regime should be inside i think more senior people like mr koussa that the energy

and i think they're a g.m. is even more water senior people not that i'm getting it i think that should be in size and so is the case in yemen i think the next would be here yeah i think that's what we have to watch was born violent incident but what about this notion dr not allayed that you know the u.s. has a little bit on its plate right now between afghanistan and iraq and a tumbling crumbling economy here at home you think still that this was the right thing to do knowing now that we don't really know who the rebels are knowing that we don't exactly know how this ends and knowing that even defense secretary robert gates has said this is war and we could be there for a long time. you know we did not bring this about and it was brought by the people of themselves and to be called wanted in peace for a change of regime and then there is here acted very brutally on my own most enlightened year and egypt when the regimes decided not to fire on their own people

it seems this violence in libya has got huge there are if we are going to see a change in the regime i will certainly you have a lot of knowledge and experience former senior intelligence officer with the cia dr neil nakul a also author of a necessary engagement. was washington considers arming the rebels and broadening the military mission here's the question is it ready for the potential blowback art is going to take your contacts a look at the ghost of forest past the international community permitted intervention in libya to protect civilians from colonel qaddafi but washington wants to go further than that and is considering arming the rebels while officially denying that toppling khadafi is the objective of its involvement in libya but broadening our military mission to include regime change would be a mistake president obama has reportedly signed a secret order authorizing covert american support for rebel forces seeking to oust

the leader in leader critics of the u.s. taking sides in a civil war war of the consequences we help accelerate the chaos. and in creating more chaos we're to we think somehow we're going to be able to direct the outcome it's the same hubris that has visited the united states and iraq the same here groups that keeps us penya and in afghanistan causes us to believe that somehow we are going to wreck events and the outcome in libya we cannot do that nor do we have the right to determine who the leader of libya should be many thier radical forces could take advantage of the chaos in libya former jihadists nomen bennett men who renounces all kind of asian in two thousand says he estimates one thousand jihadists are among the rebels in libya one t.v.

and rebel commander has openly admitted his fighters have links other reports say terrorists seized libyan surface to air missiles when arsenals were looted nato intelligence reports claim flickers of al qaida and hezbollah have been found among the rebels in libya that maintain there is no reason to believe their presence is significant but a u.s. military study three years ago said lidia's made up the second largest group of jihadists in the world right after saudi arabia all of that seems to be discarded as the u.s. is trying to prop up the opposition in libya as some analysts say in an attempt to forge a relationship with them that would be favorable for the united states in the future but experts say as of now the opposition in libya hardly has a defined face or power so these people. will not be able to take control over the situation as soon as the current regime. goes off and it means that somebody else will be. tempted to take over the country and

you know the villain there will organize. the world force in the region not in the country but in the region is unfortunately some say arming the rebels could backfire we've been in this situation in afghanistan one day we help people and the next day they shoot at us if we are cautious about military intervention to blow back their charm was johnson johnson wrote famously about is sure to happen in libya in afghanistan back in the eighty's the u.s. had a narrow goal to help them fight soviet troops subsequently the same militants turned their weapons and training against the u.s. among those of them was osama bin ladin whose group of eventually evolved into al qaida vince cannistraro cia and alice is an operations chief in the 1980's says

back then the us didn't see the dangers of arming afghan militants. and what we've seen were a tribal society. and through its separate tribes and leading to. the reconstruction of the pali but over two decades after arming the afghan mujahedeen america is now considering giving weapons to another rebel band with an unclear identity simply because of who they're fighting against. going to check on our chief washington d.c. it is the newest war the most recent but many are starting to dust off some old memories scratching their head and saying sure does look familiar moammar gadhafi a longtime enemy but sometimes friend to the united states now this country is on a path to arm those who oppose him could resemble a situation in the one nine hundred eighty s. when the u.s. increased funding to the anti soviet rebels in afghanistan back then they were

known as the mujahideen years later they became known by a different name the taliban is this an entirely different situation or could history be repeating itself philip giraldi is a former officer with the cia and joins me now to discuss philip your take on this is are we seeing some pretty intense historic connections here well it's oh there we see that history doesn't repeat itself but it tells you certain things and i think that what we're seeing here is essentially we're falling into the same mistakes that we fell into in afghanistan and may have fallen into in other places which is essentially we're in a situation where we don't really know who we're arming and we have people that are claiming to be rebels against gadhafi are claiming to be supporters of democracy and and claiming various things but the fact is we don't really know a lot about these people and what they would wind up doing with weapons that we would give them so there is a there is a very strong possibility that we will see some repeat of history and i think that fact that you brought up that we don't really know who these people are came as no

surprise to most people to learn that there are several cia officers from this country in libya they want to know who the rebels are but really ask us i mean we've been hearing since day one since u.n. resolution one thousand seventy three was signed no boots on the ground from the united states do the cia officers do they not wear boots yeah they do there's a very very legal distinction between a cia officer who operates under the national security act and i do feel. eighty seven and a military officer but but in reality the difference is not great a cia special operations officer is trained exactly the same and does exactly the same things as the special operations army officer in terms of these historic connections a lot of people of course pointing to the situation that we just talked about in afghanistan but some also pointing to for example the situation in iraq the on again off again love affair with saddam hussein that we had and also the support

that this country gave to anti-communist militias both in argentina and honduras do you think it's important to bring these things up that the government should take a look at really study what went on in these situations when deciding what to do next in libya you know i think that's that's precisely what the government should do the government should learn from its experiences and its experiences in terms of of intervening militarily or paramilitary only to make it a lower profile intervention they don't turn out very well and this is this is really the problem with this sort of thing if if these things were as surgical and as quick as they were always promoted to be in the beginning i guess most people would support them especially if it's a bad guy like a dolphin or a saddam hussein but they don't turn out that way it's really interesting as far as the cia being there again not a huge surprise we want to know who the rebels are some speculating though that they're also there for a very distinct purpose that they are there to assassinate gadhafi their take on

this my take on that is that it's unlikely i can see where the cia people would be able to get access to good off he's moving around every few hours or from what i've heard he's surrounded by bodyguards it's not a very likely possibility they might well try to recruit somebody that claims he has access to go about these inner circle to try to do what but that would be as far as i would go with her and there's been a lot of different explanations given to the public to the press. about why the u.s. is involved in libya in the first place i know we did hear very recently from deputy national security adviser denis mcdonough about our involvement and he said this he said quote we don't intervene based on precedent or based on a certain set of consistency guidelines but rather so that we can advance our interests what in this case are u.s. interests and let me well the interest is not to be intervening that's for sure the interest in libya if you look at serious national interests for the united states

is libya's an energy producer whoever is in charge of libya will have to sell the energy so that's ok it doesn't matter who the government is and the and the other thing is you know the basically libya cannot become a base for terrorism but libya was not a base for terrorism under. gadhafi so the question is there's no national interest really here libya was not a base for terrorism under gadhafi at all i mean he said not recently not since he had a long history i know it is hard out of the cold yeah exactly but in recent history could offer us not going to supporter of terrorism as far as anyone knows but the thing is that you know this is i think what what the president said on tuesday night is basically a humanitarian a nation building a democracy promotion. move on the part of the u.s. government and i find it very difficult to support as a national interest your prediction on how long this lasts in terms of the u.s. involvement there well i think there will be intense involvement for a number of months and i think there will be residual involvement of europeans and

americans maybe for as long as a year or two certainly we do appreciate having your insight to this as a former cia officer pellets are all the thanks so much thank you very much and of course it's not just what's happening in libya our what's happened in tunisia and egypt remember we had a huge earthquake a nuclear meltdown in japan and all of this has overwhelmed news channels with the tsunami of costs after years of cutting back on bureaus and correspondents overseas many networks are being reminded the benefit of real boots on the ground news coverage it does cost a lot more than armchair political punditry r t r t's on the circuit and breaks all that. it's a day when egyptian protests and news pundits are teleporting almost at the speed of light from the safety of their news desks to far away and dangerous places sirens are now going off led by their journalistic colleagues and big bucks to be made and spent egypt tunisia libya you know the world chaos japan

in a tremor of tsunami and earthquakes i want to err on the state of caution for you here disaster is exploding around the world one after the other these past months of boom all great news records my guess is that you're ok forcing us networks to cough up the cash the news organizations are crying because they're saying that the spending their entire budget is gone by march their whole annual budget for covering emergencies and crises joining me now with the latest from cairo reports suggest big t.v. networks have been spending as much as two million dollars on each of the middle east uprisings one network is said to have spent an entire one and a half million dollars in just one day in japan so while this money is ripping away at their annual budgets it's certainly not ripping away at the pockets of the star pundits when you talk about someone like katie current who for five years

reportedly received fifteen million dollars a year you talk about brian williams ten million dollars a year and some reports now if they didn't take those it enormous salaries you could hire a hundred one hundred fifty actual reporters producers but instead most networks have been shutting down foreign bureaus and kicking out hundreds of journalists many of whom were on the ground and actually in the know a.b.c. news alone twenty five percent of their entire new staff last year begging the question whether the superstars are actually worth more than hundreds of their colleagues and putting a toll on. the information the viewers end up receiving there is no doubt that in general quality of any one news organization is lower than it was thirty years ago with a shadow officially cast on what was once top notch news coverage to pay the enormous

salaries to the stars who don't know a lot about the middle east they're not experts on nuclear power they don't speak arabic but there they are jetting over to these countries it's a little silly then we have and it is standing by getting filled in on events in an unknown land forces networks to play catch up at top speed but often unsuccessfully as far as libya goes you know we're hearing all this talk about the rebels nobody has really told me who these rebels are they don't seem to know though c.n.n. got to enjoy the highest reading since obama's inauguration after several months of dying viewership but for a man that's been caught cheating yet again policing should be egg man a local nightclub on one map with japan's nuclear reactors as well as going so far as to call new york's times square with a lion king ad kairos to rere square and its news coverage in fear of being on.